Diaries
Everything
Who's Online?
FAQ / Help

Print Story 32.1 Miles. 15.4 MPH. 170 BPM (at the top of the hill at the end of my ride...)
Family
By ObviousTroll (Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:01:30 AM EST) (all tags)
Heh. And 43 years old. That's probably important, too. I can't decide if I should feel great about my conditioning or I should feel like I'm a lunatic who's gonna have a heart attack while puffing up that hill tomorrow.

Inside:  I have an equally bi-polar dilemma about parenting. Did I do right, or wrong? This is a question for parents only - y'all non-breeders are welcome to express opinions, too, but it's like the Kobayashi Maru - until you've been through it, you really don't know what command is all about.

;-/ (Hey? How come smilies are available in the body but not in the intro?)

So, I've been thinking about this since Friday and I still can't decide if I did the right thing - but lemme set the scene:

I smoke cigars occasionally. Lately I've been smoking more - but still only one or two per week on average. I don't smoke around the house because my wife doesn't like it and because, years ago, my son extracted a promise from me to stop. (red flag right there, right?) However - I honestly thought he realized I was still smoking.

Friday, a friend gave me a very expensive cigar, and I smoked it - but then I had to ride my bike home from work, in the rain. So I threw the cutter and lighter into my bike bag and hit the road. When I got home, I forgot about them and threw the bag to my son and asked him to clean it out and dry it while I got cleaned up for dinner.

When he found the cutter, he burst a gasket and when I came down stairs he pitched a fit that would have been quite impressive if I didn't out-weigh him by a good 100 pounds. I mean, he ranted for a good 45 minutes. He demanded to know why the cutter and lighter were in my bag - so I told him. He stomped around for a while, wanting to know what I would have done if I had found similar gear on his person. He threw them in the trash.

Figuring this was going to take a while, I told SWHTL and Lamb to go to dinner with out us and we would catch up later at the concert. (Phoenixville has been hosting and excellent series of free concerts every Friday during the summer, BTW - that night was a Led Zepplin cover band called "Black Dog".) - and then I settled in for the siege.

As he was winding up, I kept thinking that I could take his head off if I really wanted. I kept thinking that either of my parents would have (a) told me to shut the hell up and (b) smacked me around for a while for having the balls to tell them how to run their lives.

I mean I could have done these things - and  a large part of me wanted to. But the problem was that he was right - I had promised to give it up, and I didn't. And saying anything to justify that would be a lesson in hypocrisy that I wasn't sure I wanted him to learn - especially given that he's constantly teasing me for being "lawful good". (He once sent me a link to an "inspirational poster" with a scene from Seven Samurai - it said "Lawful Good: Because someone needs to save your stinking village"...)

So, I deliberately adopted a slightly submissive posture. I looked down rather than at his face, and I kept my mouth shut. I even let him clean the matches and the other cigar cutter out of my truck. (Actually, I encouraged him to do it - I threw him my keys and told him that he should look there, because the floor of my truck is knee deep in cigar wrappers.)

But while I appreciate his motivation, and his passion on the subject, I can't help but believe that the time will come when he sticks his head out like that and someone cuts it the hell off.

So... the question becomes, how could I have handled this in a way that would have shown him he was over the line without coming off as a complete hypocrite?

And would you have put up with this or simply shut him down right from the start?
< on two years | ATTN: Toronto Area Infidels >

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:
Related Links
- ObviousTroll's Diary
Google

Hit Counter
57 Husi users have viewed this.
Comment Controls
View: Display: Sort:
32.1 Miles. 15.4 MPH. 170 BPM (at the top of the hill at the end of my ride...) | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Concede his point by kwsNI (4.00 / 3) #1 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:07:01 AM EST
Then take his head off for how he handled it. 



IAWTAP n/t by Gedvondur (4.00 / 3) #2 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:13:10 AM EST


"I love my brain. It's the only organ I can afford to lose." --frijolito
[ Parent ]

Not a bad idea. by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 2) #3 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:15:57 AM EST
One of the reasons I kept quiet was because I didn't want to escalate things into a screaming match and, to be honest, I was actually more amused by the situation than I was angry.

But you've got a good point. If something similar occurs in the future, taking him down a peg might teach him a lesson better learned from me than from, say, his live-in girlfriend (looking to the future).


Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

One of life's valuable lessons by kwsNI (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:29:50 AM EST

You can win the argument and lose the fight at the same time if you let your emotions take control. Far better to argue when you're thinking with your head than your heart.  Nothing wrong with thinking emotionally, but it's better to cool off before you try your arguments. 



[ Parent ]

Indeed. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #7 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:48:38 AM EST
The main reason I tried so hard to keep submissive was that anger-management is something I'm still working on - and a lot of it is my upbringing. While I certainly never felt abused or mis-treated by my folks we were definitely a family that loved each other in a very loud, dramatic and hands-on sort of way.  This caused all sorts of strife with SWHTL who isn't an actual Pennsylvania Dutch-type person but she certainly grew up with that crowd.

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

I think you've handled it fine, for now. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 2) #5 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:43:40 AM EST
However, once he's had a couple days to cool off, you could broach the subject of how he handled it with him, once it's not fresh, and get across that he'd have been a lot better off, and made his points more clearly, had he come at it from less than a position of FULL THROTTLE OR NOTHING.

I do not have kids, but have taken part in raising some in the past.





Actually, that's an extremely good idea. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #9 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:52:30 AM EST
I'll have to think about how to approach it.

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

My suggestion. . . by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #10 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:16:05 PM EST
start with, "You know when you got so mad at me such and such day? You were right, however. . ." It'd probably flow pretty naturally from there, plus you're starting with a pat on the back, rather than a brick to the head.

That always seems to fly better than the alternative.



[ Parent ]

I think this makes sense by gzt (2.00 / 0) #13 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:38:51 PM EST
That's certainly how I'd want to be handled, at least.

[ Parent ]

Important Question: How old is he? by belldandi (2.00 / 0) #6 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:46:31 AM EST
[nt] 



16. by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #8 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 11:49:59 AM EST
with a black belt.

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

I'm curious about something by theboz (2.00 / 0) #11 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:16:52 PM EST
Based on what you wrote here, you're displaying a lot of aggression and talking a lot, although indirectly, with fighting words.  You mention that your son has a black belt, you mentioned that you should have just smacked him or something.  Perhaps rather than focusing on whether or not you have reacted well to this situation, you might want to focus also on whether or not you've taught him to be too aggressive.  Violence should not be the answer for anything other than self defense.  Screaming and pitching a fit involves a lot of the same feelings that fighting does.  I would definitely focus on this issue, outside of the scenario of your smoking.

- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]

LoL. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #14 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:41:47 PM EST
No, I don't think so - not physically aggressive, at any rate. I pointed out the black belt to be humorous - as a good reason why trying to kick his ass might not turn out well for me.

As for aggression displays - yeah, that's a lot of the point. Again, I was raised in a large family where we were all very aggressive - hell, with 6 kids, if you didn't stand up for yourself you weren't likely to get much to eat at the dinner table.

And, frankly, I don't see anything wrong with that.

However I am also aware that different people are, in fact, different and what would simply be considered a polite discussion in my childhood home would be perceived as assault and harassment in another.  So, learning to manage that perception - particularly when you're 6', 250 pounds and you have a booming bass voice -- is something I've had to deal with my whole life. This even led to some highly amusing (to me, anyway) times when Troll, Jr. was small - I'd try to get all new-agey and gentle with him and he'd basically spit in my face because he knew that if I didn't sound like Darth Vader on meth I wasn't really angry. (Which taught me that I could, in fact, emulate Darth Vader on meth without being actually angry, but that's a different story.)

Overall, I think I've done a mildly spectacular job raising my kids when compared to their first and second cousins - but Troll, Jr. is my boy and he clearly has the same basic impulses I do,  which means I need to teach him how to control them, which was the point of this posting.

I'm not taking any kind of passive-aggressive moral stand here. If I thought I was right I wouldn't have cared if someone had called the cops on the pair of us for domestic violence - I wasn't right. In addition, I also know that, outside our home, losing self-control like that could be quite bad for my son - if nothing else, I could see him getting into a shouting match at school that would end up in a physical fight and, as a black belt, that would be very bad news for him indeed.

And, frankly, I don't want to lose that smug self-righteousness that comes from not having any rap sheets in the immediate family.


Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

Principles and reality are different by anonimouse (2.00 / 0) #12 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:22:32 PM EST
anonimouse does not approve of taking drugs; however if passed a spliff will get stoned and not feel guilty.

Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL


Yeah, that's another thing that worried me. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #15 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:48:22 PM EST
One of the things that came out of his mouth was "I don't care what happens, I will NEVER drink and I will NEVER smoke because I am NOT that kind of person."

And all I could think of was how much that is going to hurt when he breaks his word.

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

Maybe... by belldandi (2.00 / 0) #19 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 01:09:24 PM EST
he really means it? I'm over 30 and can honestly say I've never smoked a cigarette (or even smoked a doobie, so no i'm not concealing something worse), so maybe he will stick to his guns and not do either of those things .

Isn't that part of growing up though? If he does make statements like that and doesn't take pause from doing those actions in the future then wouldn't that be more of a failure? He's thought about it long enough to make a decision about how he wants to live his life, and hopefully he's matured enough that he'll stop and think about the reprecussions if he breaks his word to himself.

Back to the original question though, it's all a matter of what you believe to be right; personally I don't mind if my kids don't agree with me; lots of things are open for discussion. However, I draw the line at fits or screaming; they are required to discuss things in a civil and thoughful manner. If they don't I bring down the hammer of parental law.

Given your questioning about wether you had the right reaction or not, I'm assuming your reaction wasn't what you normally would have had. So I would suggest you devise what it is you want to re-inforce and then follow-up with him about it later, when there is no raised emotions to cloud the conversation.

For all I've said, I hope that it hasn't been too much,
-bell

[ Parent ]

Over 30, eh? by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #21 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 01:19:19 PM EST
Then there's still time.

Join us. You do not know the power of the Dark Side. Besides, we have cookies, and great team uniforms!

;-)

As for breaking his word my main fear is that he'll flip to the opposite extreme. My grandfather owned a bar. My parents drank, and my dad smoked. From even a young age, dad would let me sip his beer and I certainly could smell the cigarettes - and it's, you know, possible that as a teen I managed to score a couple of brews at a family gathering to get a buzz going.

But as a young adult, I didn't drink because I knew what beer tasted like, and I didn't like it and I didn't smoke - pretty much for the same reason. And that kept me going all through college despite being surrounded by friends who were never exposed to these things growing up who then get to college and basically binged because they never learned how to handle it. Basically, I'd rather that my son rejected booze and butts out of knowledge rather than out of ignorance.

Don't worry about going on for too long - I knew what I was asking for when I posted this, and these kinds of conversations are one of the things I love about Husi. I mean, it's not like you could have a sensible conversation like this on Digg, is it?


Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

"Do as I say" by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #16 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:50:28 PM EST
"Not as I do".  Ah, the times I heard that when young!

I think NFB's plan is probably the best way of talking it out.  Were there any other contributory reasons why he might have lost it and this was just the last straw?




I don't think so. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #17 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:56:24 PM EST
It was almost more of a case of  "blood will tell" - as soon as he wound up I recognized - and sympathized - what was happening. He was angry at me, and angry with himself for being unable to control his temper. I've been there many, many times. I just want him to get a head start on learning to deal with anger constructively rather than waiting till after he's married to learn that not everyone thinks the "apache war dance" is appropriate dinner conversation.


Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

Then it will be a valuable time as a parent by Breaker (4.00 / 1) #20 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 01:17:13 PM EST
To pass on what you've learnt to deal with anger.


[ Parent ]

Oh, also by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #18 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 12:57:45 PM EST
Yeah. I can't count the number of times I heard smoking parents tell their kids they weren't allowed to smoke growing up...

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

I would have gone with the old by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #22 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 02:15:58 PM EST

"I changed my mind, get over it. Life is going to be full of disillusionment, get used to it now." Barring that, the old, "STFU, I pay the bills, I brought you into this world, and I don't take orders from you" is always good in a pinch.

Then again, there's probably a reason no woman has seen fit to make me a father. Well, aside from that psychotic one, who offed the offspring via miscarriage induced by drug abuse, but she doesn't count.


-
You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.


Speed by Herring (2.00 / 0) #23 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 02:36:35 PM EST
I have just done 12.2 miles in 58 minutes (up and down hills through the mud) and I feel knackered. I salute you.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge - Charles Darwin


The hills in question can make a huge difference. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #24 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 03:10:33 PM EST
My ride was actually quite flat right up till the hill my company sits on top of.

*huff* *puff* *huff*

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

Hills by Herring (2.00 / 0) #25 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 05:44:12 PM EST
I live on the North Downs. It's difficult to go any distance without encountering some sort of hill - except by putting the bike in the car and driving. Which feels wrong.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge - Charles Darwin
[ Parent ]

It's amazing how much bigger hills seem by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #26 Wed Sep 03, 2008 at 08:07:11 PM EST
when you're on a bike, isn't it? I've been on any number of rides where I started by thinking "well, I've driven that lots of times, it's not very hilly except that one spot...."

**huff** **puff** **gasp**

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

Tossing your stuff crossed the line 4 me. by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #27 Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 02:53:44 PM EST
When he starts to raise his voice (providing you don't do the same) ask him why he's talking to you like that.
Maybe that'll be enough to stop him for a moment of reflection.

If that fails--then it's time for the Five-Finger Death-Punch.


This coomenat has be n soidnsord by hurricanbe ice malt liqur


Yeah. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #29 Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:06:18 PM EST
I spent a little while thinking about how I wanted to respond to what you said - and to think about why I let him do it. I guess the reason I let it happen was because I wanted to keep things from escalating into a real shouting match. In absolute terms, the total value of the stuff he chucked was less than ten bucks - not worth a real confrontation. Moreover, by showing him the truck I also wanted to show him that I was being honest.

The thing is, I've always taught them that the cover-up is worse than the crime - that lying to me has far worse repercussions than whatever misdeed he (or Lamb) was trying to hide from me. If he had discovered all the smoking stuff in my truck at a later time would be evidence of hypocrisy and lying on my part - and I absolutely don't want him to conclude that I lie to my family when it's convenient to me.

Thought for the day: Some people are like slinkies - Not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
[ Parent ]

respect by garlic (4.00 / 1) #28 Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 04:23:04 PM EST
about the rant:

It's about respect. As a parent, as an adult, as another human being. You love and respect your son, so you let him get his rant out of his system. While the "smoking is bad for you and you promised" sentiment is correct, a rant isn't the appropriate way to show this to someone you love and respect. However, standing up to someone in a position of authority based on your beliefs is to be commended, but next time, realize the method you do it matters too.

about the smoking:

as an adult, it's your perogitive to do things that may be unhealthy that a minor does not have the perogative to choose. Breaking a promise and hiding it wasn't the right thing to do and an apology about that would be appropriate.





32.1 Miles. 15.4 MPH. 170 BPM (at the top of the hill at the end of my ride...) | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

Powered by Scoop   
 
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments and Stories are owned by the Poster and Licensed to "Hulver's site". See our Copyright page for more information.
faq | help | accounts